tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post7539243881426653849..comments2024-03-08T08:25:01.699-06:00Comments on Heresy in the Heartland: Character First and Bill GothardJerihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14097266657351609701noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-10020239771444241482022-12-29T23:20:55.465-06:002022-12-29T23:20:55.465-06:00I'm an Evangelical maybe even fundamentalist.....I'm an Evangelical maybe even fundamentalist...🤷🏻♀️ I would completely use these. But Gothard himself - no way. A number of bright talented people produce great products... but you'd never leave your children alone with these people. Yuck. Glad he's not making money off it. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think any good personal qualities will hurt us vs. not having them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-48259655777005961932020-03-12T08:35:13.367-05:002020-03-12T08:35:13.367-05:00The mind, nucleated by the inventive and adaptive ...The mind, nucleated by the inventive and adaptive human brain, “creates” your entire personal experience. Speaking cognitively, God inheres in the intersection of universal understanding and personal identity. Deviations from the maximally utile behavior of truly universal knowing are ubiquitous.<br /><br />What if no room is mentally given for universal understanding? This is equivalent to holding that the universe itself has no coherent structure and prima facie absurd. Perhaps then, personal identity is held to be intractably separate from it. Where can this separation lie except for in the universe? If real, it inhabits the real universe by definition and comprises in some real part the object of universal knowing (precluding any “ultimate” or total separation).<br /><br />Thus, mathematically speaking, there must be a God who cares about your character. Additionally, unless you are in possession of an astonishing anomaly, we all fall unfathomably short of the maximally utile behavior entailed by universal prescience. The figurative language one prefers to express this undeniable point is not of serious concern.QQDBrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471111181370709644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-21355105214485704272018-11-01T01:40:43.542-05:002018-11-01T01:40:43.542-05:00I would steer clear of any character curriculum de...I would steer clear of any character curriculum developed by a sexual predator. There may be some good truths buried in the curriculum, but it is mixed with lies.<br /><br />“ Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.”<br /><br />—C.H. SpurgeonKLShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02732929920254608794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-89766171726993419742018-04-07T23:10:29.949-05:002018-04-07T23:10:29.949-05:00I have attended the Institute many times and when ...I have attended the Institute many times and when I was 21 it saved my life the acceptance of self and way God makes us in the lst night. The Character Qualities are also quality. Used them to teach in the public schools. One student said I wish my parents were like the eagles when we studied that unit...the eagles pick a partner for life. Anyone who disagrees with the institute would do good to do what it's founder teaches: Don't quote me study the bible and quote what God says. He never wanted to be followed. He wanted people to follow the Lord. Acutally he currently writes books and meets with 300 men to pray for our nation. Praise God that I was able to attend his seminars. I currently have the Anger Seminar and has loved the beautiful teaching that has helped me see where I have been angry.over the hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00036135148226167481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-50987575707395460322017-08-31T10:09:29.276-05:002017-08-31T10:09:29.276-05:00Based on my experience with Gothard, CharacterFirs...Based on my experience with Gothard, CharacterFirst, the 49 qualities, and the IBLP cult, I would run screaming in the opposite direction. But maybe the Duggar family is exactly the vision you have for your family, in which case I recommend a savings account for therapy down the road!Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14097266657351609701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-39194823553080620522017-08-28T12:59:28.179-05:002017-08-28T12:59:28.179-05:00I just ran into the character first program and wa...I just ran into the character first program and was looking forward to imolementing this for our homeschooling family. I am clueless about all the talk here. Do you think that I should avoid this program or it can benefit if imolemwnted with grace.Again I do not know much about it but I do know my children and even us as parents need to know what each character trait means and to have a system in place for learning and applying. Woyld appreciate your insight. Thank youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-87597679962696376062016-11-11T10:45:07.872-06:002016-11-11T10:45:07.872-06:00Rachel and Eric: Your comment is pretty stupid. T...Rachel and Eric: Your comment is pretty stupid. The value of something is not determined by the author. The value of something is determined by how well it works. How many problems it solves and how well it solves them and for how long it solves them. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. God's ways are beyond knowing. God does not have favorite people. It is Christians with attitudes like yours, that cause the most problems for Christianity. He who has not sinned throw the first stone. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08244698465989773529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-85623647716780141052016-11-11T10:39:07.992-06:002016-11-11T10:39:07.992-06:00A few things to keep in mind:
A church is a hospi...A few things to keep in mind:<br /><br />A church is a hospital for sinners.<br /><br />The same idea applies to the character school.<br /><br />The value of an idea is determined by how well it works, and no other criteria.<br /><br />The value of an idea (or the truth) is not determined by authority, or beliefs or by opinions, or by political correctness, or by who wins an argument.<br /><br />The truth is nothing more or less than the right knowledge to solve the problem at hand. <br /><br />Everything man has ever learned was by making mistakes and spilling of blood.<br /><br />He who has not sinned throw the first stone.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08244698465989773529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-64873258880661209762016-10-20T12:08:07.571-05:002016-10-20T12:08:07.571-05:00Interesting. I actually suspected a strong connect...Interesting. I actually suspected a strong connection after trying to use the program in my local church. Discovered this website, actually, after googling to see if there was a connection. I grew up in the Gothard era (member of ATI, went to countless seminars...) I'm frustrated to discover that these lessons are saturated with Gothard. Rachel and Eric Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01653881916336961421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-34343250631138765852016-08-11T00:58:30.190-05:002016-08-11T00:58:30.190-05:00Wow, I think whoever made this site needs to focus...Wow, I think whoever made this site needs to focus on channelling their time and energies into something more important rather than criticising other Christians and character programs!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-65446489179698316492014-03-13T12:59:19.813-05:002014-03-13T12:59:19.813-05:00I think character qualities should be descriptive ...I think character qualities should be descriptive of a person, not prescriptive. It is the height of arrogance to define 49 words to describe the god you've created, and then demand that your followers match the same description! <br /><br />I used to think good character was only possible with Jesus, but I am happy to report that I have found more goodness outside of faith than within. Parenting is also a much pleasanter experience when you no longer assume your children are "dead in sins" and their best qualities are like used maxi pads ("filthy rags", in the KJV).Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14097266657351609701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-15277209246083514112014-03-13T12:10:42.575-05:002014-03-13T12:10:42.575-05:00Character qualities are great UNLESS your striving...Character qualities are great UNLESS your striving to build character apart from the grace of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Sometimes I wonder if Bill Gothard believes if he produces character in people that this will turn them to their need for Jesus. It doesn't as only those who are convicted of the Holy Spirit can see that they are dead in sins and trespasses and all their righteousness are as filithy as rags to God. It is Jesus Christ who MAKES one righteous and Holy and changes people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-52656503473519452242014-01-06T17:30:21.457-06:002014-01-06T17:30:21.457-06:00If a character-loving god exists, s/he must be dee...If a character-loving god exists, s/he must be deeply saddened by Gothard, whose ATI program is responsible for the physical and psychological abuse of hundreds, even thousands of children. All I can say is, look at the fruit of this "character". I knew Gothard, and his character qualities did not work for him. :(Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14097266657351609701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-8614188818424320942014-01-06T15:43:20.786-06:002014-01-06T15:43:20.786-06:00I don't see anything wrong with these characte...I don't see anything wrong with these character qualities. We are to aim for being like Christ, continual growth and sanctification, grace covering where we fail. If these are abused, then that should be addressed, but only that - not the character qualities nor the personal growth in reaching for them.<br /><br />I am actually doing research to write a book on character and I am astounded at the weight of internet space devoted to tearing down ATI. <br /><br />We attended one once, when I was a teen. Never went back, as it was a bit authority-heavy. But the way everyone talks, you'd think anyone who likes ATI must be into child and wife abuse. You find abuse in every sector of society, including the most liberal and atheistic. <br /><br />As for driving kids away - I have found just as many kids turning from the authority of God in their lives on both sides of the issue. It's a heart thing and if you are going to love the Lord you are going to do it no matter what. If you are going to turn from Him, you are going to do that no matter what as well.<br /><br />I can't see people standing before God after turning away from Him and getting a pass with, "God I would have loved you, except for this whole Bill Gothard thing!"<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-38408871067426586642014-01-05T20:58:35.569-06:002014-01-05T20:58:35.569-06:00As an addendum to my last comment....Good characte...As an addendum to my last comment....Good character never hurt anyone. And, God will deal with the misuse of character that many of the IBLP/ATI people displayed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-77248969766653209632014-01-05T20:55:34.883-06:002014-01-05T20:55:34.883-06:00Not sure what point you're trying to prove. I ...Not sure what point you're trying to prove. I think everyone knows the CF!E and IBLP connection. Our family was in IBLP/ATI for many years, lived at many Training Centers, etc., but it doesn't help anyone to bash things like not using white flour (which isn't true anyway). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-14850838494231631982013-11-28T19:44:33.373-06:002013-11-28T19:44:33.373-06:00Thank youfor the historylesson. As an alummi of m...Thank youfor the historylesson. As an alummi of mamy seminars and a six year ati alimni, I appreciate the perspective you shared.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503399848376770420.post-21550460404305340752013-09-29T20:14:55.993-05:002013-09-29T20:14:55.993-05:00Yea I'm with you. I have always known the conn...Yea I'm with you. I have always known the connection, and it's funny now that people deny it. Travis https://www.blogger.com/profile/15544719218180062798noreply@blogger.com